In Episode 12 of the Art of Composing Podcast, I talk to Samuel Adler, author of one of the most popular books on orchestration, The Study of Orchestration.
What is in this episode:
The most beneficial activities for composers learning orchestration.
Samuel Adler’s thoughts on getting published when you’re young.
Golden nuggets from some of the greatest teachers and composers of the twentieth century.
Why you should copy great composers like Bach and Hindemith.
Start as early as possible. This includes the study of harmony, counterpoint, and analysis, as well as your instrument.
Get a teacher as early as possible – this subject is too complicated and too complex to learn completely on your own.
Get familiar with the main corpus of music that has been created, as far back as medieval times.
Listen to and read a much music as possible.
Get into an ensemble.
Play chamber music on the side.
Keep writing and keep learning.
What are characteristics of good Orchestration?
Transparency Let the orchestra choirs sound so that it doesn’t all sound like a big mish-mosh.
Great Orchestrators
Igor Stravinsky Claude Debussy Maurice Ravel Henri Dutilleux
The American’s knew how to orchestrate better than anybody.
Copland Piston Session William Shuman Ned Rorem Samuel Barber
Thoughts on Walter Piston
He wasn’t the best teacher because he taught by sarcasm.
Thoughts on Hindemith
You had to write a new piece for every single lesson. He would then rewrite it. You ended up writing what he would like.
I wrote like a little Paul Hindemith for a very long time.
Thoughts on Copland
He was the best teacher because he would point out there was something wrong with your piece, but he wouldn’t tell you exactly what.
He would show you – identify some kind of weakness, or mistake, or wrong chord, or something like that. And instead of, like Hindemith putting the right chord, he would say, “Go home and do it.” And you learned more by worrying. He said “Somethings wrong,” so something must be wrong, and you tried very hard to correct it. And this was a terrific way of teaching.
On teaching in General
The composition teacher is like a midwife. He can’t have the baby but he can help along.
Always try to live into the music or style that the student is writing.
Samuel Adler’s Thoughts on Technology
I can tell, by looking at a score, whether that composer has composed with the computer. You have delete on the computer and you have repeat on the computer, and much of the minimal music is not as good as Philip Glass, or any of the great composers of minimal music.
Samuel Adler’s Process of Composing
He starts with sketching. He always completes his short score before orchestrating. Orchestration is treated as a 2nd composition.
Why he wrote The Study of Orchestration
He wrote the book by default, because the books they were using didn’t actually talk about orchestration – just instrumentation. It challenges you to think about the orchestra.
The Pathway to Mastery, Part 1 https://chrt.fm/track/6DA3GA/traffic.libsyn.com/artofcomposing/04_AOC_004_-_The_Pathway_to_Mastery_Part_1.mp3 Podcast: Play in new window | Download | Embed...
I am a film composer, and lover of music theory. I have spent many years figuring out the tools and techniques that actually work for composers, and now I want to teach them to you.
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What a wonderful web site. I’m so happy I found it. I’m 81 years old. I’ve had 60 years of playing as a weekend warrior and raising a family and writing music on the nightshift. Now I’m retired and devoting my life to writing. Zen Mind, Beginners Mind is a great book by the Zen master S. Suzuki. I’m always a beginner and this web site snd its podcasts are like discovering a gold mine. Thank you.
I studied composition with Samuel Adler in the 1960s. He had students write a 12-tone row and then add a few more notes to it to create motives and cadences and then compose with this longer row. That way you had pitch diversity along with tonal elements. I think this deserves to be shared.
Wow. Mr Adler confirms my suspicion that youth is a great place to start learning…anything. As an old guy just starting out, Art of Composing gives me opportunities for a rich second act of life and music. Great interview!
Sorry but I feel that Adler reinforces here many of the unattractive stereotypes of old age of which I hope to never grow into; he is fundamentally closed minded, fears change and he lacks humility and grace. He directly insulted the whole concept of your approach to music education; for that I am somewhat surprised you proceeded to publish this.
I loved the interview with Adler
What a wonderful web site. I’m so happy I found it. I’m 81 years old. I’ve had 60 years of playing as a weekend warrior and raising a family and writing music on the nightshift. Now I’m retired and devoting my life to writing. Zen Mind, Beginners Mind is a great book by the Zen master S. Suzuki. I’m always a beginner and this web site snd its podcasts are like discovering a gold mine. Thank you.
Thanks Lenny. I’m glad that my journey inspires others to write.
I studied composition with Samuel Adler in the 1960s. He had students write a 12-tone row and then add a few more notes to it to create motives and cadences and then compose with this longer row. That way you had pitch diversity along with tonal elements. I think this deserves to be shared.
Really good podcast. Thanks!
Thanks Ilkka.
This was great, I love your interviews so far, keep them coming!!!
Thanks
Wow. Mr Adler confirms my suspicion that youth is a great place to start learning…anything. As an old guy just starting out, Art of Composing gives me opportunities for a rich second act of life and music. Great interview!
Thanks Aaron. It was a fun interview, and he has a lot of wisdom.
Sorry but I feel that Adler reinforces here many of the unattractive stereotypes of old age of which I hope to never grow into; he is fundamentally closed minded, fears change and he lacks humility and grace. He directly insulted the whole concept of your approach to music education; for that I am somewhat surprised you proceeded to publish this.